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Question for Janneke or Peter (Read 9253 times)
Merlin
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Question for Janneke or Peter
Nov 3rd, 2010 at 9:31pm
 
Hi All

I'm discussing with someone the patronizing of CERF and OFA here in North America.

Some breed clubs make it mandatory, some don't ., In Europe are you mandated by the chow club to do CERF and OFA????

Curious to know.
Thanks for any response.
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Gurkan
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #1 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 9:50pm
 
I know I wasn't the one being asked here, but since the question was about Europe and I live in Europe I thought I'd reply anyway...

Each country in Europe have their own rules and regulations. In my country, Sweden, all chows used for breeding must be officially HD scored before being bred, or the puppies can't be registered. The breed club here only have recommendations on health tests such as HD and ED, but it's the kennel club that set the mandatory rules and regulations.
Because the breed club have these recommendations on HD and ED, amost 100% of all chows used for breeding in this country is also being tested for ED. We don't do CERF though.

Right, I hope breeders and chowists from other European countries will tell about this from their point of view. It's really very interesting to learn about breeding and health programmes in other countries.
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #2 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 9:55pm
 
Thank you for the reply Gurkan, and I hope other people answer also. I should have addressed the question to everyone Smiley

That is a good rule to have in Sweden.
I don't think this exists in North America? I'm not sure.

I will be nice to hear from others.
Thanks!
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Seal
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 5:59pm
 
Hello Merlin.

In The World of Chows in 2000 is an article about national health programs and health schemes in 12 countries.
I hope such a type of article will be again in the edition about 2009/2010 which we are preparing at the moment and which will be published in 2011.

As Jessica said, there is no 'Europe' in this respect, the situation is different per country.
There are however FCI breeding rules. But I doubt if any breeder would know them!

In Holland where I live, there are rules set by the Kennel Club and by the breed club. These are 'ethical' rules. As are the FCI rules. Offending them has no serious consequences.

The rules of the Kennel Club are about welfare of the dam and avoidance of too strong inbreeding.
The rules of the club are about health (for Chows: scoring of knees and hips).

Pedigrees will be issued when the parents have a pedigree and the administrative procedure is followed correctly. The parents can have ED-3 or HD-E, no problem!

Only for a few breeds (a.o. Rottweiler, Dogo Argentino, Mastino Napoletano, American Staffordshire Terrier) and temporarily a temperament test of the parents was mandatory to register the puppies.

But for Chows everything is free.
Some breeders follow the breed club health policy or even do more, some follow it partially and another breeder even ignores it.
It seems to make no difference for the puppy buyers: the majority seems not to study backgrounds. However all information about the health tests (hips, knees and elbows) is publicly available from the Club's website.

So the situation is very liberal over here.
But who wants to know about backgrounds, is able to know.




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Kind regards,
Janneke
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #4 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 8:56pm
 

But for Chows everything is free.

Really? You mean the test itself? That's truly marvellous, because if the testing is free, then it encourages everyone to do this no?
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Gurkan
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #5 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 9:09pm
 
Seal wrote on Nov 4th, 2010 at 5:59pm:
However all information about the health tests (hips, knees and elbows) is publicly available from the Club's website.


Thanks for that info!! I have already checked it out! I have Dutch bloodlines in two of my bitches (they go back on Ch Kwai-Pao Kwei-Jang), so I will see if I can find any health results of the Dutch chows.
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #6 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 9:12pm
 
oh ok. I see. the access to the information is free. Now I understand.

Anyways, that's a very good thing!
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DutchChow
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #7 - Nov 4th, 2010 at 11:29pm
 
Hi Merlin,

First of all many thanks for your topic here.
I'm pleased to see that both Jessica (Gurkan) and Janneke (Seal) have adequately replied to you.
Both persons are really involved and committed in getting the 'best in Chow Chows'.
The book Janneke is talking about might be still available. When interested please contact her.

Peter
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 12:22am
 
Peter the book still IS available and I have decided it will be my Christmas gift to myself.!!!! and what a nice gift it will make.
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 12:28am
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I find I'm sitting on the fence wondering if I should fight fire with fire from the perspective that we have SO many puppy mills in Quebec selling such poorly bred chows, but in the meantime, there are no chows in the showrings in Quebec  and maybe if there was a Breeder of Merit here, or at least there would be some accessibility to the educated people who would be interested in purchasing quality chows, I'm actually thinking that maybe the timing is right for that and should work with a mentor who can guide me. ( It's just a thought that's been going through my head) - even if it helps establish better ties so that people feel more comfortable contacting breeders outside Quebec .  At least it would be some kind of start. and then.. maybe I'm wrong, but you should see what people are selling in that province and calling them chows.... it's unbelievable..

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Ef_Deal
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #10 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 1:32am
 
Merlin wrote on Nov 5th, 2010 at 12:28am:
we have SO many puppy mills in Quebec selling such poorly bred chows, but in the meantime, there are no chows in the showrings in Quebec  and maybe if there was a Breeder of Merit here, or at least there would be some accessibility to the educated people who would be interested in purchasing quality chows


That is a problem in many areas, I think (I may be wrong).  There is one excellent breeder relatively near me (4 hours away), but when I was looking for a companion for Shadow, he wasn't breeding at that time.  Other breeders (and I'm not complaining here, but regretting) insisted that I pay a number of visits, but the closest of those was a two-day road trip away, so three separate visits of 4 days each were out of the question for me.  I understand the reasoning, but such conditions make a quality purchase beyond reach. Still other breeders are completely exclusive.

Is there anything in between?  A private owner who breeds well and wisely, but not to obscene excesses?

Anyway, I wish you well on your endeavor.
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #11 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 1:54am
 
There are SO many chows looking for homes, that in itself is a great place to get a new companion!
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Ef_Deal
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #12 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 4:10am
 
Perhaps, but two points:  age and proximity.  I wanted a puppy or a young chow; there were none near me.  For that matter, there were no chows at all near me.
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Seal
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #13 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 6:50pm
 
Merlin wrote on Nov 4th, 2010 at 8:56pm:
But for Chows everything is free.

Really? You mean the test itself? That's truly marvellous, because if the testing is free, then it encourages everyone to do this no?


No, no, health tests are rather expensive over here.
So the owner must be very dedicated to the breed to let the dog be tested.
Which is a pity as this way nearly only the breeding dogs are tested while it would be so more interesting to have the majority of the population done.

In fact the complete tests and scorings for knees and hips (requested by the breed club in Holland) and elbows (to accomodate with the international standards for healthy Chow breeding) will cost about 400 to 500 euro.
The puppy is about 1100-1200 euro over here -- to show the relation of the prices.

What is free is the decision to participate -- or not.


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Kind regards,
Janneke
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Merlin
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Re: Question for Janneke or Peter
Reply #14 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 7:56pm
 
Thanks for the additional info.

Many people don't realize that this is one of the reasons they have to pay more for a quality puppy. They don't take into consideration that the breeder has to spend money on the puppy.

A lot of people just don't want to understand that.
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