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A new standard? (Read 4851 times)
DutchChow
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A new standard?
May 2nd, 2009 at 11:20am
 
At the start of 2009, the Kennel Club (in the UK) announced the results of its review of all Breed Standards to ensure that all dogs are healthy, of good temperament and fit for their original function.
The website: The Kennel Club UK.

Our concern is that with this new (proposed) standard for the Chow some typical characteristics (like the 'stilt') are killed.
A discussion started and even a petition was made.

For the good order:
The Chow breed standard is known in the FCI under code: FCI number 205
Country of origin for the breed: China
Country of patronage: United Kingdom
So The Kennel Club (UK) is here in the lead!!


The Kennel Club came up (end of 2008) with Breed Health Plans Issued having for the Chow Chow quite some consequences when looking to the Standard.
Nevertheless a so called Interim Standard was validated, as per 01 January 2009 and Chow Clubs got the opportunity to respond till 30 June, 2009.

A meeting with representatives from the Chow World took place.
The Kennel Club and Breeds Working Together

Clearly that we all are wondering about the status and what can be expected.

Peter

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Shane
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2009 at 12:48am
 
I read the standard and noticed several conflicting traits that is called for.

"...not have so much coat as to impede activity or cause distress in hot weather." - Well I guess the Smooth Chows will take over the breed ring.

Eyes "oval shaped", "A matching coloured eye permissible in blues and fawns" - I thought the the breeds was asked to have an almond shaped eye and the eyes should be a dark brown to black.

Ears "carried stiffly and wide apart but tilting well forward over eyes and slightly towards each other, giving peculiar characteristic scowling expression of the breed - I understand that the ears should be tilted forward however, well over the eyes means that the ears needs to be carried parrallel to the skull, or the position needs to be carried forward. Plus, I don't understand what the ears have to do with the scowl, and also why must the ears be tiltled inwards aswell?

Hindquarters "moderate angulation" - Shows should be boycotted by Chow exhibitors, just for this same reason. I thought that the purpose of the any Kennel Club would be to preserve the dog of th past so that it would remain in the present, and still continue to be in the future.

Gait "Relatively short stride." - This cannot be acheived with a moderate angulation in the rear. Longer the hindlegs (to compensate for the angulation) the further it shall extend in the rear to drive the dog and extend forward.

Shane





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Gurkan
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #2 - May 3rd, 2009 at 11:48pm
 
Shane wrote on May 3rd, 2009 at 12:48am:
"...not have so much coat as to impede activity or cause distress in hot weather." - Well I guess the Smooth Chows will take over the breed ring.

Not really... But there are definitely roughcoats out there with too big coats. However, I am not sure those coats will cause more distress in hot weather than chows with shorter coat, since distress in hot weather mainly is caused by breathing problems...
When roughcoated chows need to be trimmed, scissored and overall sculptured, they have too much and long coats. The same goes for smooths.

Shane wrote on May 3rd, 2009 at 12:48am:
Eyes "oval shaped", "A matching coloured eye permissible in blues and fawns" - I thought the the breeds was asked to have an almond shaped eye and the eyes should be a dark brown to black..

A lighter eye has always been ok in the dilutes, just as the nose pigment never is black in those colours.
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Shane
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #3 - May 6th, 2009 at 8:24pm
 
Gurkan wrote on May 3rd, 2009 at 11:48pm:
Shane wrote on May 3rd, 2009 at 12:48am:
"...not have so much coat as to impede activity or cause distress in hot weather." - Well I guess the Smooth Chows will take over the breed ring.


Not really... But there are definitely roughcoats out there with too big coats. However, I am not sure those coats will cause more distress in hot weather than chows with shorter coat, since distress in hot weather mainly is caused by breathing problems...
When roughcoated chows need to be trimmed, scissored and overall sculptured, they have too much and long coats. The same goes for smooths.


I know that Smooth Chows would not suddenly take over the ring, because there are other rough coated chows that doesn't have that overly bred in coat. So there would not be a sudden dislike of roughs. However I do not see that relevant to the standard, so to me that being added to the standard made no sense..

There is the Old English Sheepdog and the Pekingnese, they both have very long coats. The coat of an O.E.S. makes that of a Chow pale in comparison, and it doesn't impedes on its movement. The Peke's structure dictates it movements because of how it is built. I have even had groomed and shaved Pekes off completely, even afterwards they still hjad an ambling roll. Ps also a O.E.S. structure toltally differs from that of a German Shepherd Dog, so even when shaved you wouldn't have that movement.

A chow should be scissored (thinning shears) only for the purpose for neatness because "obvious trimming or shaping is undesirable". The only point to me is that if I am going to breed a Chow with an overly bred coat why should I have to trim it off.

Shane wrote on May 3rd, 2009 at 12:48am:
Eyes "oval shaped", "A matching coloured eye permissible in blues and fawns" - I thought the the breeds was asked to have an almond shaped eye and the eyes should be a dark brown to black..

A lighter eye has always been ok in the dilutes, just as the nose pigment never is black in those colours. [/quote]

I realized this later that night I posted it. I did not noticed that the Kennel Club goes by the FCI standard. I had no idea .So it differs from the A.K.C. which asks for "eyes dark brown, deep set and placed wide apart and obliquely, of moderate size, almond in shape", it doesn't gives allowance due to coat color.

Shane
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Gurkan
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #4 - May 7th, 2009 at 10:21am
 
Shane wrote on May 6th, 2009 at 8:24pm:
However I do not see that relevant to the standard, so to me that being added to the standard made no sense..

True! That makes no sense at all! I believe it's just something the KC wrote to please an upset but ignorant public... To the ignorant public it does make sense...

The Swedish Kennel Club has something called
Special Breed Specific Instructions (BSI) Regarding exaggerations in pedigree dogs
that all judges judging in Sweden have to go by. Here 49 breeds are listed in three categories depending on how serious problems they have. The chow is listed in the category that says it needs Urgent attention. This is what judges have to consider when judging chows in Sweden:

Problems are caused by an excessive amount of skin and the formation of the
hindquarters.
Existing faults in this breed are:
• breathing difficulties caused by insufficiently wide respiratory channels and
throat producing snoring and laboured breathing, often with mouth constantly
open.
• eye problems as a result of eyes set in excessive amount of skin.
• incorrect movement which may be the result of inadequately angulated stifles
and hock joints.
Particular attention must therefore be paid to breathing, eyes and skin, but also
to movement.
The current breed standard reads: ”short and stilted movement”. This requires
minimal angulation of the stifles; this must not be exaggerated so as to impair
movement.
Stifles and hocks that knuckle over are anatomically incorrect.
Unconstrained breathing, sound eyes not showing any sign of irritation and typical
movement are all important points.


Now, this makes sense! This is all new and is used for the first time this year, so it will be most interesting to see what the judges will do.
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Shane
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #5 - May 13th, 2009 at 8:30pm
 
Yes that actually made alot of since with out changing the standard.

Although the A.K.C. doesn't have that,  what I love about the standards is that "Elegance and substance must be combined into a well balanced whole, never so massive as to outweigh his ability to be active, alert and agile". However, what I really like about also is that "Exaggeration of any characteristic at the expense of balance or soundness shall be severely penalized". This allows breeders a little creatvity, however they should not cross a certain line.

Shane
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DutchChow
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #6 - Jun 1st, 2009 at 7:53am
 
Thank you Shane and Jessica for your comments!
We are in June now and wonder what amendments might come or not come....after the input/comments/remarks from the (UK) Chow Clubs till the end of the month.

Peter
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monasimderomania
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #7 - Oct 22nd, 2010 at 7:01pm
 
Good evening!

I must confess the news about a new standard made me have the second thoughts about showing my Chows(mostly after I had the surprised to be judged so diferentlly by a LV judge, after two years of excellent results, Champion class with one of my Chows).
I wish I have more infos about the interpretation in the ring of this new standards - curious to see how judges will appreciate and judge from now on!
Would anybody have pictures with Chow Chow according to the new standard?I wish I could understand better what the expectations are(mostly because  am a breeder and often show my Chows in the ring) - many thanks for your help!
Another question: when judging, the number of teeth is essential or the bite? the standard states the following:
'Jaws/Teeth : Teeth strong and level, jaws strong, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. the upper teeth closely overlapping the lower teeth and set square to the jaws.'
What about a Chow who agressivly refuses to show teeth(it took 20 minutes to make him show a bit of his bite) and he is not disqualified, he is even awarded the best prize?
I must confess sometimes I have doubts that after about 20 years of breeding Chow,  I know anything about the quality of my Chows...and this is not encouraging at all both for the breed and breeders that face the same.
Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Gurkan
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #8 - Oct 23rd, 2010 at 10:30pm
 
monasimderomania wrote on Oct 22nd, 2010 at 7:01pm:
Good evening!

I must confess the news about a new standard made me have the second thoughts about showing my Chows(mostly after I had the surprised to be judged so diferentlly by a LV judge, after two years of excellent results, Champion class with one of my Chows).
I wish I have more infos about the interpretation in the ring of this new standards - curious to see how judges will appreciate and judge from now on!
Would anybody have pictures with Chow Chow according to the new standard?I wish I could understand better what the expectations are(mostly because  am a breeder and often show my Chows in the ring) - many thanks for your help!
Another question: when judging, the number of teeth is essential or the bite? the standard states the following:
'Jaws/Teeth : Teeth strong and level, jaws strong, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. the upper teeth closely overlapping the lower teeth and set square to the jaws.'
What about a Chow who agressivly refuses to show teeth(it took 20 minutes to make him show a bit of his bite) and he is not disqualified, he is even awarded the best prize?
I must confess sometimes I have doubts that after about 20 years of breeding Chow,  I know anything about the quality of my Chows...and this is not encouraging at all both for the breed and breeders that face the same.
Smiley Smiley Smiley

It's really not a new standard in the sense of awarding a new type of chow. It's just that chows of extreme type (over done) will have a tougher time in the rings, whereas chows of more correct and not exaggerated type still will do just fine. In this country, with the BSI being in practice for almost 2 years, the same type of chows is still winning as prior to the introduction of the BSI.

I have a smooth bitch that is quite typey with a little too much loose skin and being very heavy all over. She is still winning because the judges still think she is sound, with clean eyes, excellent movement and she has no problems breathing.

Usually only the bite is judged in chows, at least when English, American and Scandinatiav judges are judging. Even though a chow should be reserved towards strangers, it should still accept the judge to handle it in the ring. Chows being too wary and not letting the judge check the bite or touching it at all, should be disqualified or excused.
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Merlin
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Re: A new standard?
Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 10:12pm
 
Quote:
. It's just that chows of extreme type (over done)


but that's a good thing no?
I'm curious to see the long term impact of the new standards.

Probably one of the most difficult positions to be in would be to be a judge don't you think? No matter what decisions are made there will always be a difference of opnions on the judge's choice. It can't be an easy role, and I often wonder how many judges actually stick to the guidelines anyways??
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